Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Official Development, Research, Bug Fixes and Progress directly from Cybdyn Systems
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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » May 7th, 2019, 1:03 am

People looking for fast processing on PS1 are being unreasonable. Annoying or not, everybody should know what they are getting into.

99.9% compatibility and stability are the only things which really matter here.
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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by amerika » May 7th, 2019, 10:41 am

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 1:03 am
People looking for fast processing on PS1 are being unreasonable. Annoying or not, everybody should know what they are getting into.

99.9% compatibility and stability are the only things which really matter here.
I don't believe anybody is expecting "fast processing". My post was entirely informational as I know quite well what the problems are and the limitations of the hardware being used.

I have an extreme use case where I've curated over 500 games that are all labeled and working on the PSIO (channeling my inner SmokeMonster) and have them all on a single 400gb SD card. I wasn't sure if even the PSIO devs had put that many games on a card quite yet. I figured I'd give them some details of my experience as it's a "worst case scenario" for the PSIO and it might help give some ideas on what problems to tackle next.

I would definitely love it if the back option was able to be sped up along. And it would also be nice to have an option to scroll faster. Due to not folder support yet, I have to label everthing 1. NA - GameName - PSIO then 2. JP - GameName -PSIO then 3. PAL - GameName - PSIO etc. As you can imagine, getting to JP and PAL games is a bit of a chore.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » May 7th, 2019, 7:44 pm

amerika wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 10:41 am
I would definitely love it if the back option was able to be sped up along. And it would also be nice to have an option to scroll faster. Due to not folder support yet, I have to label everthing 1. NA - GameName - PSIO then 2. JP - GameName -PSIO then 3. PAL - GameName - PSIO etc. As you can imagine, getting to JP and PAL games is a bit of a chore.
I'm not denying it is is a chore. I'm just saying it will never be a modern experience like switching songs on Spotify. This is a 1994 console using MIPS R3051 with 5 KB L1 cache, running at 33.8688 MHz. Of course, it's going to be slow and clunky in some ways, no matter what. Over 500 games on one SD card is simply an overkill for the system in some ways.
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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by amerika » May 8th, 2019, 2:43 am

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 7:44 pm
amerika wrote:
May 7th, 2019, 10:41 am
I would definitely love it if the back option was able to be sped up along. And it would also be nice to have an option to scroll faster. Due to not folder support yet, I have to label everthing 1. NA - GameName - PSIO then 2. JP - GameName -PSIO then 3. PAL - GameName - PSIO etc. As you can imagine, getting to JP and PAL games is a bit of a chore.
I'm not denying it is is a chore. I'm just saying it will never be a modern experience like switching songs on Spotify. This is a 1994 console using MIPS R3051 with 5 KB L1 cache, running at 33.8688 MHz. Of course, it's going to be slow and clunky in some ways, no matter what. Over 500 games on one SD card is simply an overkill for the system in some ways.
You do realize the PSIO itself has a CPU and FPGA, correct? In the simplest terms, it has it's own horsepower. Virtually everything in this thread that has been discussed can be implemented with some software work. Most of the work, currently, is focusing on fixing games that do not work and not breaking any games that currently work why they are at it as opposed to optimizing the speed of the menu for extreme cases (like mine) or adding more features (write to the SD cards file system to enable all kinds of new future features). From the response I got, it looks like the PSIO also has the ability to offload some work to the PS1 as well which is pretty awesome.

I am not trying to upset you, but you appear to not quite understand the technology involved and why people like myself are stating the issues they have ran into. I am attempting to help the devs save time. I know almost nobody is going to have 500 games on an SD card. That does not mean it's not good information for the devs to eventually prioritize that type of use case.

People can and will build their collections (and share them) so something like being able to page faster, being able to load faster, having the ability to put games in folders for organization and not having file # limits are all good features to have down the road for more and more people like mysef. I've done something even the devs might not have and I might have saved them a bit of time by telling them my experience thus far. I am not demanding changes, I know why I have the issues I outlined and I am a patient person. Everything works and that is key for me.

Everything is slow right now with a lot of games not because the hardware can't handle it. It's that the hardware being used can't handle the current software implementation that was mostly designed to get a bunch of games up and running quickly but not handle a future use case that might become quite common.

Long story short, do not beat down people who are reporting issues by saying "the PS1 is slow so everything will always be slow" when that simply isn't true. Especially those who are not demanding and very understanding of why their issues are issues. It helps the devs to know this kind of information as they might already know of a way to fix the issue quickly and implement it faster or it will help them prioritize the problem going forward and tackle it as the appropriate time.

For everyone else, sorry for this being long winded. I was going to ignore it but I think it's best it's addressed so other forum posters do not try to stop reports from coming in.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by fernan1234 » May 8th, 2019, 2:58 am

amerika wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:43 am
I know almost nobody is going to have 500 games on an SD card. That does not mean it's not good information for the devs to eventually prioritize that type of use case.
I think you may be underestimating the kind of person that is more likely to get a device like the PSIO in the first place ;)

In my case, I decided to break up my curated set across five 128GB SD cards, which makes things more manageable and a bit less clunky to navigate on the PSIO's menu. But since I'm often only playing one or two games at a time, I just place games I'm actively using on a smaller (32GB) card that is of higher quality/more expensive (the same that the devs use for testing) to minimize issues. That may be the most practical approach for most people that are not shuffling through different games frequently. For now maybe you'd be better off splitting your set across three cards for each region.

I agree with your post though. While I also think that game compatibility should be priority #1, I'm hopeful that we won't wait too long for speedier menu navigation and other features that involve reading a database from the SD card and/or writing to the SD card.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » May 8th, 2019, 3:17 am

amerika wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:43 am
You do realize the PSIO itself has a CPU and FPGA, correct? In the simplest terms, it has it's own horsepower. Virtually everything in this thread that has been discussed can be implemented with some software work.
If you think PSIO can easily process everything itself like a modern computer, then you are gravely mistaken. It would take a lot of work to program something like that, and even then we're not talking about blazing processing speeds because PSIO's innards aren't that powerful themselves. I am not trying to upset you, but it's you who appear to not quite understand both the technology and software involved. Seriously, what do you think can be done with a Cortex-M3 MCU and a 2007 Altera FPGA? You'd need something like Altera DE2-115 to even run Doom.
amerika wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:43 am
Long story short, do not beat down people who are reporting issues by saying "the PS1 is slow so everything will always be slow" when that simply isn't true.
I clearly said people can ask for whatever they want, but things won't even get moving before the compatibility and production issues are resolved. They just can't expect some things to be feasible because this is a 1994 hardware we're talking about. I've seen the same requests for PS2's OPL and even the PS2 hardware is extremely limiting the devs. It must be a nightmarish challenge on PS1, whereas you make it sound like it's easy and the hardware poses no limits, lol.
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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by amerika » May 8th, 2019, 4:14 am

fernan1234 wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:58 am
amerika wrote:
May 8th, 2019, 2:43 am
I know almost nobody is going to have 500 games on an SD card. That does not mean it's not good information for the devs to eventually prioritize that type of use case.
I think you may be underestimating the kind of person that is more likely to get a device like the PSIO in the first place ;)

In my case, I decided to break up my curated set across five 128GB SD cards, which makes things more manageable and a bit less clunky to navigate on the PSIO's menu. But since I'm often only playing one or two games at a time, I just place games I'm actively using on a smaller (32GB) card that is of higher quality/more expensive (the same that the devs use for testing) to minimize issues. That may be the most practical approach for most people that are not shuffling through different games frequently. For now maybe you'd be better off splitting your set across three cards for each region.

I agree with your post though. While I also think that game compatibility should be priority #1, I'm hopeful that we won't wait too long for speedier menu navigation and other features that involve reading a database from the SD card and/or writing to the SD card.
I also used multiple SD cards to improve speed and to separate my games out. However, I switched to an 400gb SD card because large SD cards are becoming more prevalent and I wanted to see what would happen (I knew full well most of the issues I would run into). People used to think of having whole romsets easily accessible was "crazy" for cartridge based games...let alone it being speedy. Yet that is exactly what we have today so it's worth gunning for with CD based solutions too.

So I decided to go for the extreme and then provide feedback because, as time passes, what I ran into might become a common issue for people. Yes, the PSIO is perfectly capable of loading the list of games quickly given the proper software implementation (the solution has already been discussed in this thread multiple times), going back to the list after hitting the back button and even my request for changing the paging from 2 games using R2 to a full page. Which, for Takehaniyasubiko's sake, that takes no effort and requires no/little extra programming (depending on implementation). It has nothing to do with the speed of the PS1 or the speed of the PSIO.

If a PSIO specific set was created and ended up being shared out to people, and with 400gb SD cards costing less than $60 for good ones (I paid $58), it might be good info for the devs to have now than later. I agree that the priority should be getting hardware out and fixing comparability, I don't think anybody rational would argue against that. But I'm not about to be brow beat by the likes of Takehaniyasubiko who can't even understand the conversation going on where he stops me from sharing the data I've collected or him trying to silence reasonable requests from myself or others..especially when I'm not demanding them be done ASAP.

That's all I have left to say on the topic. If you are getting upset by this, leave the forum for a bit and go have a beer.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Seroczynski » May 8th, 2019, 7:21 pm

I've been following the 512 limit and large sized SD card discussion closely for the past few days. As soon as I got my PSIO order I've purchased a 512GB Transcend SD card, not knowing that this could potentially be an issue in some way.

I don't play my PSX that often, and I don't mind taking some time to load up my game. We all understand there is no rush and there are other, more important issues that needs to be solved before addressing the use of large SD cards. That being said, it would surely be an improvement if there would be some kind of optimalisation.

Anyhow, I'm pleased with whatever updates the PSIO receives. I've been using the SD2SNES for quite a few years now and in that time it's been improved quite a bit. Slow but steady wins the race :D

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Relikk » May 10th, 2019, 8:11 am

Here we go again. Take it to a separate thread, please.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by djc5166 » May 16th, 2019, 10:52 am

Any ETA on the new fw you mentioned awhile back?

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Matt » May 16th, 2019, 2:40 pm

djc5166 wrote:
May 16th, 2019, 10:52 am
Any ETA on the new fw you mentioned awhile back?
Still working on it. We might have a lead on fixing Jackie Chan.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by kabantus » June 1st, 2019, 10:27 pm

Hi Matt!

PSIO and Net Yaroze compatible?

Best Regards,
kabantus

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Matt » June 2nd, 2019, 2:01 am

kabantus wrote:
June 1st, 2019, 10:27 pm
Hi Matt!

PSIO and Net Yaroze compatible?

Best Regards,
kabantus
Yes, it will work with the Net Yaroze.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by solidcore » June 8th, 2019, 2:10 am

Priorities:
1) Game compatibility, after all that's the most important part.
2) Menu loading times since a 256GB micro sd card now only costs £27 in the UK, I'm sure larger size cards are dropping in price soon enough so most people will require a menu performance increase, a Database cache is a smart idea, use of memory is also smart idea, although I am a little iffy about a PC application just for database building - if going to such trouble to make the app, give it option of doing various tasks such as multidisk.lst file building, de-dither patch, downloading art-work from a server for said title CRC-32, and so re-building cache is 2nd nature in a very nice package?
3) Game picture menu -if possible
4) other features.

Alast I have now a OSSC 1.6a+ps1+ps-io setup on my 4k 65" Samsung over HDMI as unfortunately these new modern tv's don't have RGB Scart support only 480 > Component , I did try a rgb-> component however it was useless since 240i is unsupported, only ps-io menu and games like tekken3 work so don't waste your money on a passthrough, you need an upscaler; therefor a OSSC is necessary to upscale the 240i. And although cheaper solutions exist I wasn't willing to bet on their quality or latency, the OSSC hit's the spot in my opinion with amazingly clean output, can't see any interference or jailbars, in looks and feels like Digital RGB mods I have for my famicom/n64... albeit without the de-blur feature - but yeah blown away.

De-dithering - I found plenty of titles benefit visually from de-dithering patch such as Spyro, CTR, and so forth on modern tv's, if you have not checked out the de-dither patch I recommend doing so, however games like Silent Hill don't look great unfortunately, so it depends on the title. I wonder if the de-dithering could be a feature you can add to the PS-IO one day as the patch simply updates a common hex value in the ISO images, perhaps the ISO image upon being read could be quickly patched in runtime.

To the PS-IO team, keep up the amazing work, please concentrate your time efforts solely on compatibility and perhaps you should slowly let people into your team under a less trusted rank to be able to improve the compatibility of games without access to the entire source ? Either on a speculative level or somewhat HDL level. I can't really comprehend how you guys resolve the bugs and improve compatibility, but I assume you use debuggers of some kind and perhaps we/everyone else could use said debugging tools to help point you guys in the direction you need.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Matt » June 8th, 2019, 3:37 am

solidcore wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 2:10 am
Priorities:
1) Game compatibility, after all that's the most important part.
2) Menu loading times since a 256GB micro sd card now only costs £27 in the UK, I'm sure larger size cards are dropping in price soon enough so most people will require a menu performance increase, a Database cache is a smart idea, use of memory is also smart idea, although I am a little iffy about a PC application just for database building - if going to such trouble to make the app, give it option of doing various tasks such as multidisk.lst file building, de-dither patch, downloading art-work from a server for said title CRC-32, and so re-building cache is 2nd nature in a very nice package?
3) Game picture menu -if possible
4) other features.

Alast I have now a OSSC 1.6a+ps1+ps-io setup on my 4k 65" Samsung over HDMI as unfortunately these new modern tv's don't have RGB Scart support only 480 > Component , I did try a rgb-> component however it was useless since 240i is unsupported, only ps-io menu and games like tekken3 work so don't waste your money on a passthrough, you need an upscaler; therefor a OSSC is necessary to upscale the 240i. And although cheaper solutions exist I wasn't willing to bet on their quality or latency, the OSSC hit's the spot in my opinion with amazingly clean output, can't see any interference or jailbars, in looks and feels like Digital RGB mods I have for my famicom/n64... albeit without the de-blur feature - but yeah blown away.

De-dithering - I found plenty of titles benefit visually from de-dithering patch such as Spyro, CTR, and so forth on modern tv's, if you have not checked out the de-dither patch I recommend doing so, however games like Silent Hill don't look great unfortunately, so it depends on the title. I wonder if the de-dithering could be a feature you can add to the PS-IO one day as the patch simply updates a common hex value in the ISO images, perhaps the ISO image upon being read could be quickly patched in runtime.

To the PS-IO team, keep up the amazing work, please concentrate your time efforts solely on compatibility and perhaps you should slowly let people into your team under a less trusted rank to be able to improve the compatibility of games without access to the entire source ? Either on a speculative level or somewhat HDL level. I can't really comprehend how you guys resolve the bugs and improve compatibility, but I assume you use debuggers of some kind and perhaps we/everyone else could use said debugging tools to help point you guys in the direction you need.
1) Agreed.
2) We'll work on it :)
3) Possibly.
4) We need Martin Korth who wrote the NO$PSX emulator to work with us. He is the right man for the job.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » June 8th, 2019, 3:58 am

Matt wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 3:37 am
4) We need Martin Korth who wrote the NO$PSX emulator to work with us. He is the right man for the job.
NO$PSX has only mid accuracy. Why him? What about the person who wrote the highly accurate PlayStation core for Mednafen?
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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Matt » June 8th, 2019, 12:45 pm

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 3:58 am
Matt wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 3:37 am
4) We need Martin Korth who wrote the NO$PSX emulator to work with us. He is the right man for the job.
NO$PSX has only mid accuracy. Why him? What about the person who wrote the highly accurate PlayStation core for Mednafen?
Because of the documentation and research that Martin did for NO$PSX. It shows that he can seriously reverse engineer.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » June 8th, 2019, 1:29 pm

Matt wrote:
June 8th, 2019, 12:45 pm
Because of the documentation and research that Martin did for NO$PSX. It shows that he can seriously reverse engineer.
The same can be said about the person who created the PS1 core of Mednafen, but it has a much higher compatibility. Maybe the author of NO$PSX is easier to reach, though. Too bad Dr.Hell seems unreachable nowadays because he did the best job at reverse-engineering PS1 to date.
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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by solidcore » June 9th, 2019, 8:12 am

I don't mind who gets on board, anyone who can improve compatibility is the man for the job whether they're emulators are accurate or not, they also have to have time and the interest to commit to this project. Both would be even better :)

I still don't know how you guys even debug games on real hardware with the PS-IO (is this on real hardware or some kind of fpga-emulator bridge on your PC?, or are you debugging via the ps-io in some kind of altera tool and watching memory address/data , special ps1? ps1 itself has a debug dump in memory?), but if we can bring up a debugger before games initialize and crash with details or dump logs then I think most people would do that if there isn't a performance loss, provide logs and how-to cause the bugs /crashes in the first place that could save time overall, please let me know how you guys do it, as long as it doesn't risk potential competitors cashing in on the method of course.

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Re: Official PSIO News and Development Thread

Post by Matt » June 10th, 2019, 1:17 am

We have special debugging tools which aren't available to the public. We can't release any information about it unfortunately.

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