Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by zredgemz » October 25th, 2016, 11:52 am

aloram wrote:
eric90000 wrote:So whats the general consensus on the best model....SCPH-1001 as Shadow said? I heard that the early PS1's can sometimes have stuttering FMV, maybe that's just if they have a bad laser?
I'd recommend a 5501. The 1001 has the best audio, but it's less reliable.
Don't they both have the same audio chipset? i got both myself and i am pretty sure i read an article linked on this forum about those being the best playstations for audiophile's.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by aloram » October 25th, 2016, 12:05 pm

I did a lot of research this past winter, and the consensus seems to be that the 1001 has the best sound, and it's the "audiophile's choice." I don't really notice those kinds of differences myself, I'm just passing on what I've read.

The "newest" lasers are in the PSOne (SCPH-101), the final revision of the Playstation. Those can be swapped into models that are compatible with the PSIO, such as the 5501. (Read earlier posts in this thread for more information.) I bought a barely-used PSOne and put the laser into my 5501, using the ribbon cable below, purchased from that specific seller. I, too, installed the MM3 modchip, to use it for any games that don't work with the PSIO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Playstation ... 0990485296

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by zredgemz » October 25th, 2016, 1:40 pm

Either way the 101 model does have atleast one great advantage, the video out on the 101 can be used to plug in the Guncon so you can have s-video or RGB picture while still being able to use a light gun(you need a compatible CRT for RGB or a RGB to component conversation).

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Matt » October 25th, 2016, 5:00 pm

There was a topic somewhere I think that said the 7500 series change the way dithering was handled, or it handled something a little differently.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by RoberMC » August 3rd, 2019, 12:07 pm

Consoles with "v2 GPU" change a little how dithering is handled. That is from scph-7000 and newer.

For me, the best model is the scph-7500. It has the best laser of the "fats" (the same as scph-9000), it has the port for the PS-IO, you can replace the laser yourself and the board auto calibrates itself. Remember that just replacing the laser in older models than 7500 usually does not work, as the mainboard needs adjustment for it. Some times it works for pure luck, but it will never read as it came from the factory without a proper laser calibration.

I would not buy anything else than a 7500 or newer to play physical discs (psone is the best), but for use exclusively with the PS-IO, any model will do, because you will not even notice if the disc drive dies. For me the definitive all purpose PS1 console would be a scph-7500 series with a psone laser, or even the stock laser is very good.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 3rd, 2019, 10:29 pm

Consoles with "v2 GPU" change a little how dithering is handled. That is from scph-7000 and newer.
The "v2 GPU" was introduced in Rev. C hardware which first appeared in late 1995.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Jaggy » August 4th, 2019, 1:53 am

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
August 3rd, 2019, 10:29 pm
Consoles with "v2 GPU" change a little how dithering is handled. That is from scph-7000 and newer.
The "v2 GPU" was introduced in Rev. C hardware which first appeared in late 1995.
Correct, I have a SCPH-1001 PU-8 with the updated GPU. They were available well before the 7000 series debuted.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 4th, 2019, 3:07 am

Jaggy wrote:
August 4th, 2019, 1:53 am
Correct, I have a SCPH-1001 PU-8 with the updated GPU. They were available well before the 7000 series debuted.
Exactly. I have a PU-8 board with the improved GPU as well, but it took me two tries to get it because some PU-8 boards have the old GPU. Everything made after 1995 has the enhanced GPU.

I believe PU-8 with the improved GPU is the best model out there. You get both the great DAC for audio and the better GPU. Even the plastic is of better quality. With that being said, there is nothing wrong with the later models. You can't really go wrong here.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by pyroesp » August 4th, 2019, 4:43 pm

You guys realize this topic is from 2015/2016 right ?

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by NRGDEAD » August 4th, 2019, 9:03 pm

Might still be relevant to someone doing a search and ending up here. :-)
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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by zePeido » August 6th, 2019, 1:31 am

Sorry if this has been answered before. I have my PSIO for almost a year now, and still haven't tried it, because of lack of time for assembly, and because I have several PS1 consoles with different motherboards and I don't know wich one I should use.

So far, most people say that the older models with the newer GPU are the best, because the sound circuitry is better than the one on newer models and because image quality is equal to the newer models.
But in a post at Assembler Games, the user CoolerKing states that the models with the newer video encoder chip have sharper image (and also have more noise) than the models with the older video encoder chip (his tests were made using S-Video):
https://web.archive.org/web/20190605204 ... del.51396/

Does anyone tried to test image quality between different video encoder chips with SCART/RGB? Do you think that models with the newer video encoder chip might have better image quality?

Thanks.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 6th, 2019, 1:47 am

zePeido wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 1:31 am
But in a post at Assembler Games, the user CoolerKing states that the models with the newer video encoder chip have sharper image (and also have more noise) than the models with the older video encoder chip (his tests were made using S-Video):
https://web.archive.org/web/20190605204 ... del.51396/

Does anyone tried to test image quality between different video encoder chips with SCART/RGB? Do you think that models with the newer video encoder chip might have better image quality?

Thanks.
What CoolerKing from Assembler Games wrote might be true for CVBS and S-Video, but it's certainly not true for RGB analog component video. The older models have a visibly sharper and cleaner image via legitimate RGB cables.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by zePeido » August 6th, 2019, 11:00 pm

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 1:47 am
What CoolerKing from Assembler Games wrote might be true for CVBS and S-Video, but it's certainly not true for RGB analog component video. The older models have a visibly sharper and cleaner image via legitimate RGB cables.
Thanks. I'll probably use one of my PAL PU-8 with the newer GPUs. Now I'm only lacking time to do the assembly :(
If I use a PAL PU-8, I'm also considering adding a second oscillator if I have time and if it's not too hard, but I've heard that it's hard to buy new oscillators.


If I play a NTSC game in a PAL PS1 (doesn't matter if the PAL PS1 is an older model or a newer model) without any modifications to the console and using SCART/RGB, the game will play in 50Hz instead of 60Hz and the image will be displayed without any issues? Only problem might be with some sound timing?
Sorry for the off-topic and thanks.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 7th, 2019, 1:18 am

zePeido wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 11:00 pm
Thanks. I'll probably use one of my PAL PU-8 with the newer GPUs. Now I'm only lacking time to do the assembly :(
If I use a PAL PU-8, I'm also considering adding a second oscillator if I have time and if it's not too hard, but I've heard that it's hard to buy new oscillators.
You don't need that for RGB video.
zePeido wrote:
August 6th, 2019, 11:00 pm
If I play a NTSC game in a PAL PS1 (doesn't matter if the PAL PS1 is an older model or a newer model) without any modifications to the console and using SCART/RGB, the game will play in 50Hz instead of 60Hz and the image will be displayed without any issues? Only problem might be with some sound timing
If you play an NTSC game on a PAL PS1 using PSIO without any modifications to the console and using SCART/RGB, the game will play in 60 Hz and full color with no issues whatsoever. There's a difference between PAL and NTSC PS1s in the clock frequencies, but it's about 0.1% and doesn't matter in virtually all cases.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by NRGDEAD » August 7th, 2019, 1:27 am

I'm not 100% sure and too lazy to research this right now, but as far as I know, the dual oscillator mod is to make a console be able to do 50/60 Hz, whereas an unmodded PAL console would do something like 50/59.X Hz, which fair enough for most games, but can bring the audio out of sync at least for some. Which is gamebreaking for music games like Parappa the Rapper.
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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 7th, 2019, 1:49 am

NRGDEAD wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 1:27 am
I'm not 100% sure and too lazy to research this right now, but as far as I know, the dual oscillator mod is to make a console be able to do 50/60 Hz, whereas an unmodded PAL console would do something like 50/59.X Hz, which fair enough for most games, but can bring the audio out of sync at least for some. Which is gamebreaking for music games like Parappa the Rapper.
The oscillator mod is mainly to get correct NTSC and PAL color signals via CVBS and S-Video cables (not needed with RGB cables, which are the only ones people should use in this day and age). The difference in Hz between PAL and NTSC PS1s is literally zero and one tenth %. It's not gamebreaking in the slightest even in rhythm games. I've played the NTSC US Parappa the Rapper on my PAL PS1 for years and it's perfect to me.

Even if somebody is concerned about that 0.1% difference in speed, I still recommend actually getting both PAL and NTSC PS1s instead of modding one, especially since you basically need to kill one PS1 to get the oscillator.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by TheShadowRunner » August 7th, 2019, 2:07 am

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 1:49 am
The oscillator mod is mainly to get correct NTSC and PAL color signals via CVBS and S-Video cables (not needed with RGB cables, which are the only ones people should use in this day and age). The difference in Hz between PAL and NTSC PS1s is literally zero and one tenth %. It's not gamebreaking in the slightest even in rhythm games. I've played the NTSC US Parappa the Rapper on my PAL PS1 for years and it's perfect to me.
A lot here is just wrong. RGB is of course affected as well.
NTSC PS outputs video at 59.94 Hz whilst a modded PAL PS does around 59.20. The oscillators in PAL systems were designed for PAL video timings, so they may not work to spec when forced to do NTSC video timings.
That's why there are frameskips in FMVs too, very noticeable versus true NTSC.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 7th, 2019, 2:16 am

TheShadowRunner wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 2:07 am
A lot here is just wrong. RGB is of course affected as well. NTSC PS outputs video at 59.94 Hz whilst a modded PAL PS does around 59.20. The oscillators in PAL systems were designed for PAL video timings, so they may not work to spec when forced to do NTSC video timings.
That's why there are frameskips in FMVs too, very noticeable versus true NTSC.
RGB video isn't affected as far as the colors go because it's not using the PAL/NTSC color subcarriers at all. That's the whole point of RGB. That's what I had written. The speed difference is a different matter.

PAL PS1 uses GPU clocked at 53.203425MHz (12x the 4.43361875MHz PAL color subcarrier). NTSC PS1 uses GPU clocked at 53.693175MHz (15x the 3.579545MHz NTSC color subcarrier). The difference in speed is 0.1%. That's because the actual chip is exactly the same. Only the oscillators differ and the speed diffrence from that is so small (0.1%) that it doesn't matter in virtually all games. The only ones which might be affected are some rhythym games where audio is synced to SPU, but video is based on counting vblanks. The only ones I know of are some Konami rhythm games, but they are still playable.
TheShadowRunner wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 2:07 am
That's why there are frameskips in FMVs too, very noticeable versus true NTSC.
Not true at all. NTSC FMVs would simply play 0.1% slower on a PAL PS1 and that's imperceptible to human eye.

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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by NRGDEAD » August 7th, 2019, 2:23 am

Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 2:16 am
The only ones I know of are some Konami rhythm games, but they are still playable.
Then this might be what I read about the topic a year ago. Altough I think they mentioned Parappa the Rapper. Again, not sure + lazy.
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Re: Buying a new (used) PSX, recommended version?

Post by Takehaniyasubiko » August 7th, 2019, 2:25 am

NRGDEAD wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 2:23 am
Takehaniyasubiko wrote:
August 7th, 2019, 2:16 am
The only ones I know of are some Konami rhythm games, but they are still playable.
Then this might be what I read about the topic a year ago. Altough I think they mentioned Parappa the Rapper. Again, not sure + lazy.
They probably assumed all rhythm games are bad, but that's not true. Only some which are coded to have two sync methods - SPU for music and vblanks for video. NTSC Parappa the Rapper is fine on a PAL PS1. Virtually all PS1 games are, really.

BTW, this isn't a PS1 thing. Pretty much all old consoles are like that since companies didn't put dual oscillators due to costs. Dreamcast doesn't have this issue because it was designed to generate the right frequencies on its own regardless of the region, but it was also designed for VGA and has a weird internal aspect ratio (it's actually not 4:3), so it's just a weird piece of hardware altogether.
Last edited by Takehaniyasubiko on August 7th, 2019, 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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